Dr. Mona Delahooke | Beyond Behavior Charts and Positive Reinforcement



Think Inclusive: Season 10 Episode 3


For this episode, I talk with Dr. Mona Delahooke, author of the books, Brain-Body Parenting and Beyond Behaviors.


We discuss the neuroscience of behavior, how parents and educators can move beyond behavior charts and positive reinforcement, and a new way to look at using the check-in procedure with learners.


Thanks for listening, and if you haven't already, please give us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.


***


Click here for a transcript of this episode.


Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.


Sign up for updates from MCIE.


Credits


Think Inclusive is written, edited, and sound designed by Tim Villegas, and is produced by MCIE.


Orginal music by Miles Kredich.


Support Think Inclusive by becoming a patron!


Audio Transcript


Tim Villegas

Dr. Mona Delahooke wants parents and educators to think about challenging behavior differently. Usually, when we target behaviors that we want to change,


Mona Delahooke

we tend to think, well, this is good or bad behavior or something that we need to be concerned about. We focus on the behavior, which I view is the tip of the iceberg, right? Just actually a signal of what's going on inside of a child rather than the target.


Tim Villegas

But what if there was a way to look beyond the typical behavior management systems to support learners?


Mona Delahooke

The most important environmental aspect is a caring, warm, loving adult, who witnesses your distress. And who doesn't reinforce you when you're doing something they think is good and takes away their attention when you do something that they believe is attention seeking or negative.


Tim Villegas

And what about those disabilities specific classrooms that districts say are so necessary?


Mona Delahooke

Why would we segregate those in our society who are differently wired? What message does that give those children? And how about depriving those children who are deemed as neurotypical of classmates who have different brain wiring?


Tim Villegas

My name is Tim Villegas and you are listening to Think Inclusive presented by MCIE. This podcast exists to build bridges between families, educators, and disability rights advocates to create a shared understanding of inclusive education and what inclusion looks like in the real world. For this episode, I talk with Dr. Mona Delahooke, author of the books, Brain-Body Parenting and Beyond Behaviors. We discuss the neuroscience of behavior, how parents and educators can move beyond behavior charts and positive reinforcement, and a new way to look at using the check-in procedure with learners. Thank you so much for listening. And now, my interview with Dr. Mona Delahooke.


Tim Villegas

Today on the podcast, we have Dr. Mona Delahooke, who is a licensed clinical psychologist with more than 30 years of experience caring for children and their families. She is a senior faculty member of the Profectum Foundation, and a member of the American Psychological Association. She is the author of Beyond Behaviors: Using Brain Science and Compassion to Understand and Solve Children’s Behavioral Challenges, and is a frequent speaker, trainer and consultant to parents, organizations, schools, and public agencies. She lives and works in the Los Angeles area. She is also the author, which is why she's here of Brain-Body Parenting. So welcome to the Think Inclusive Podcast.


Mona Delahooke

Oh, thanks so much, Tim. Thanks so much for having me on.


Tim Villegas

I'm really excited to have you on we talked a little bit before we started recording about how Beyond Behaviors was really your book about your experience in education. And how misunderstood students who are neurodiverse and the new book Brain-Body Parenting is really a parenting book, but I'm really interested in our audience, understanding the connection between, you know, how parents focus on solving problems with children and how teachers do. Can you share a little bit about why do parents want to focus on solving problems instead of relationships?


Mona Delahooke

Well, it's a really good question. And I think it's something that is a thread in our culture, not only in our schools, but in our parenting and how we view children. We are accustomed, I think, to viewing behaviors as the target. And we tend to think, well, this is good or bad behavior, or this is a misbehavior or, you know, something that we need to be concerned about that we focus on the behavior, which I view as the tip of the iceberg, right, just actually a signal of what's going on inside of a child rather than the target, which is where our culture, and especially our education system tends to view especially those behaviors that we would consider challenging. So that I think was the notion the paradigm shift that I am suggesting for education and even for parents is that we do look beyond the behaviors to see about that very useful information it provides about the child and be less judgmental about what a behavior means, and focusing less on the behavior and more on the child.


Tim Villegas

Yeah, so let me bring in a personal story, and I'm not sure if I'm gonna keep this or not, but I was making breakfast this morning for my nine year old. And she's the only one who gets up early with me because everyone else is older, middle school and high schoolers. And I made breakfast. She did not want to eat it. We have like this menu, you know, monthly menu and it's set. Right? I made the breakfast. She didn't want to eat it. And there was a part of me that was like, that stinker. She doesn't want to eat my br-- you know? I made this breakfast. She doesn't want to eat it!


Mona Delahooke

All the work! And thinking. This is a real breakfast. This doesn't sound like just a piece of dry bread.


Tim Villegas

It was -- you know? I'll tell you what it was -- it was an apple cheddar fritatta, okay? Like --


Mona Delahooke

Oh my goodness.


Tim Villegas

Mona, you would have loved it.


Mona Delahooke

Okay, I'll order two of those.


Tim Villegas

No, okay, that's it. But seriously, I was thinking about this. And I'm like, I'm like, You know what it's like, she's not trying to get under my skin. I mean, I know my kid. But she's not like, and that it was so funny because I was thinking about your book. And just in my experience as an educator, because that kind of stuff happens all the time. Like, it doesn't matter if it's breakfast, or if it's an assignment your wanting to give, you know, like, this kid doesn't want to do what I want them to do. Right? So I want to bring in this question and connect it to something that you wrote on social media, because you wrote something that you said in your book was one of the most popular things right, that you've you've put out on social media. And it's: If the ability to control emotions and behaviors isn't fully developed, until early adulthood, why are we requiring preschoolers to do this? And then punishing them when they can't? So why do you think that resonated with so many people? You know, I mean, I'm just thinking like, you know, my nine year old, who was getting upset with me, because I wanted her to eat my breakfast that I so dutifully made, you know, like, she's not, she's not fully in control of her emotions at six o'clock in the morning.


Mona Delahooke

I love that. Yes, yes. Well, let's think about from a few different angles. And I love your example, honestly, because it would be so easy to personalize refusing to eat a delicious breakfast that was made with love, right? And care to have it feel like and I know, I felt this is a parent a lot. Like, oh my gosh, that just so mean or disrespectful, are you joking? Like, really? Like, why are you doing that? And the whole idea that we can kind of deconstruct that I know, as a parent or a teacher, certain behaviors can make us feel like the person is being disrespectful, or they're not considering our feelings and things like that. But what we don't realize is that underneath the tip of the iceberg of the behavior are so many other factors that are likely influencing those decisions. And so for example, it could be that inside of that of her body, she was not feeling physically hungry yet, or that her body was still waking up. So even the smells could have triggered something that we call a, a safety threat right to inside the bodies, like the smell be like, oh, and so it was a physiological reaction. She wasn't aware of that. And, and it came out in like, No, I don't want that. So we can look underneath, we can kind of start to understand that our behaviors and our emotions is a deeply physiological process. It involves our body. But also in regard to that quote that you just read. It's part of our development, the ability to contextualize and control your emotions and your behaviors is a project that starts from toddlerhood and moves on to really young adulthood. That ability to kind of realize put all the ducks in a row. Have in your mind to be able to say something polite rather than something, which is how you really feel. As we get socialized, we learn how to to have a more sophisticated problem solving, but it's a project and I think that's why the quote resonated. That was so funny, because it was one of the most popularly shared quotes and I just threw it up there. Literally within 10 seconds. I was taking a walk. And I saw this, these parents trying to have a toddler do something that was way beyond their skill level. And so I just like put it on. And sure enough, like 2 million people saw it. So I think that a lot of us don't properly understand social and emotional development. We have what's called the expectation gap. We think kids can do things when they really can't developmentally. Sure, they can walk, they can talk, toddlers look like a legit little mini adult, but they are so unbaked. And that's why when we understand their brain and body development, we can see that we can expect these behaviors rather than dread them.


Tim Villegas

And that applies to children that are not on a typical path of development too correct?


Mona Delahooke

A million percent and, and just emphatically so because that's the other part that our our education system doesn't get very well. And I'd like to first say that I there is no blame and no shame intended, the educators that I work with, and I know, intend well, and are incredible people, they have been our heroes through the pandemic. So I have nothing but respect for those individuals and helping our children and our students. But from a from a knowledge standpoint, our field of education and even the field of psychology, I think, doesn't understand the profound impact of individual differences. And how those individual differences such as brain wiring differences, perceptual differences, movement differences, all those things that our neurodivergent children and students and teenagers and adults have in which makes them special and makes them unique, oftentimes are judged as inappropriate behaviors or behaviors that are misunderstood. And I think at the at the worst end of it, punished. And that's what I would like to see shifted in our education system.


Tim Villegas

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's, let's get back to Brain-Body Parenting, because one of the phrases you talked about is the platform. And I thought that was really interesting. So what do you mean by the platform?


Mona Delahooke

Yeah. So I think we're more accustomed to think about our children's thinking brain. And there's been a lot of of great parenting books out there about the brain, and including the brain and how we think about parenting, which is so great. And I'm adding that the brain gets its operating instructions from the body. So I coined the term after Dr. Stephen Porges, who is a neuroscientist that I that I really value and use his his theory in, in my work is that the actual platform that launches our behaviors, ours and our children's, and our emotions, and our sensations is the brain and body. So the platform is a shorthand for our brain and body connection. And that is always in charge. Because we're not just a brain. And we're not just a body, we're always both. So I'm bringing into the parenting literature, this idea that if we don't understand our children's nervous systems and our own, we're missing the full picture. If we're just focusing on behaviors, we are really again, looking at the the behavior is the target and not the signal. And it can kind of mess up our relationships, it can kind of make us feel certain ways about our children. I know that happened to me, when I had one of my children whose behaviors I didn't understand. They seemed either odd or, or disrespectful. And until I until I knew better, I just the relationship was was kind of on on a shaky foundation. So we can learn so much from this platform. Yeah.


Tim Villegas

I loved how you said that. You the behavior, a lot of times we see behavior as the target. Right? Instead of oh, now I forget what you said behavior. Yeah, so yeah, yeah. Because I'm just thinking about as if, as educators are listening to this, you know, we have behavior targets all the time, like, like IEP goals, right? observable, something that's observable, and that is what we're taught to look for. Right? Not signals.


Mona Delahooke

You hit the nail on the head. Exactly. Our whole and not just education are really our whole culture is around looking at behavioral management, behavioral control, and especially in our education system, because teachers are taught behavioral technologies, right, those are, those are our teachers best toolkit, you know, behavior charts, explanations on posters on classroom rules, and, and teaching children what's expected and all that and there's nothing wrong with teaching children what's expected or having rules posted on the classroom. But what I do have a problem with is things like behavior charts, where you where children or teachers track behaviors by either colors or going up and down. When we are working outside of that knowledge that you don't want to punish a signal, that is a stress behavior, because those stress behaviors that our children do that that get on IEP goals that people think are intentional bad behavior, like bothering other students, or trying to escape from the classroom, or making loud noises. Those aren't done by by students trying to make life miserable for their peers or their teachers. Those shouldn't be the object of our behavior plants, those should be compassionately understood as the adaptations and protection of the nervous system for that student's body and brain for their platform. And that's the paradigm shift in how we view behaviors that hasn't taken root yet, in our education system.


Tim Villegas

A trend in modern applied behavior analysis is to really look for those underlying sources, you know, for challenging behavior is what you're proposing in this parenting book. And in beyond behaviors, is that really different? Then the modern ABA framework?


Mona Delahooke

I'm really curious. I've heard the phrase modern ABA framework. And so it's, it's, I wonder about what that actually means. And


Tim Villegas

I have no idea because I've never heard of it until I wrote it in the question. So if you --


Mona Delahooke

Yeah, so I'm assuming -- Yeah, I'm assuming it's a way that ABA may be trying to update their their databases. And possibly also with a growing wave of the neuroscience, that is showing us that behaviors are signals, and digging deeper, but boots on the ground. I'm in schools, I am observing in classrooms, I'm in preschools, I'm in special ed, ABA run, schools observe as an observer, because of my patients are all in those schools, I don't really see a difference between the ABA I see. See now and the ABA I saw a decade ago, when you're focusing on behaviors, you're focusing on behaviors. And if a child is, for example, not paid attention to when they do a certain behavior, or when they are considered that they're not going to be reinforced, or they're not going to be not going to get a sticker or attaboy, or that's great unless they do x. To me, if that's still behavior management, and behavior management doesn't consider the internal life of the child their feelings, their self concept, their emotions, their physiological process. In other words, how distressed are they inside? How much can they show you that distress? And what are your techniques doing to that child's distress level, such as when children are put in like calm down rooms that are supposed to be these nurturing places where children can feel safe, while the calm down rooms that have children that I have seen are where an adult will go with them to a room and not talk to them? Because they don't want to reinforce a quote unquote, bad behavior. So with all due respect for everybody working with children, people are telling us about what it felt like to be the recipient of a behavior management program. Those are the students who are now teenagers and young adults that I've personally worked with that tell me what it was like for them. So since I'm, I am not neurodivergent, in that way, I need the information from the experts and to me, the experts aren't the teachers. They are the students themselves who went through it.


Tim Villegas

The effort that educators put into crafting an environment like and I'm talking physical, a physical environment, to reduce the stress and make children and students feel safe. Their energy would be better put into building and cultivating a relationship as opposed to a physical environment. Is that right?


Mona Delahooke

I love the way you said that. 100% Because relationships are the most important part of the physical environment. Now, certainly, you know, noise cancelling walls, I've been in certain schools where they have pad, pad like walls that absorb noise, and background, a foreground. Sure. Those are some great aspects of creating an environment. But the most important environmental aspect is a is a caring, warm, loving adult, sees who witnesses your distress, and who doesn't reinforce you when you're doing something, what they think is good and takes away their attention when you do something that they believe is attention seeking or negative. So I love that you just brought that up. Yeah, we could spend our resources on human accommodations first, that doesn't require any extra money that doesn't require an architect or funds to build new classrooms, if it requires human beings with the lens shift away from behavior management, and towards compassion, and what we call co regulation.


Tim Villegas

Do you think that that is more likely to happen in? Well, I feel like I'm leading the witness here. But do you feel like that this, this co-regulation, developing and cultivating relationships, and I'm really mostly talking about the students who are neurodivergent, but you know, as an organization where we are promoting inclusive schools, we're promoting students, in classrooms with their typical peers, we are not promoting self contained and segregated environments for students with disabilities. And I'm just wondering, in your professional opinion, you know, which is more likely to for these relationships that happen?


Mona Delahooke

Well, in my professional opinion, it needs to happen. Why would we segregate those in our society who are differently wired? What message does that give those children? And how about depriving what those children who are deemed as, as neuro typical, depriving them of classmates who have different brain wiring? It's just it's the question, I think it you aren't really leading the witness. You're just I'm just thinking from a logical perspective. Segregation, is that good for our culture in general? And I think not. So But your question is a good one, where is it more apt to happen? And I think that relationships at this point, and this might be a bold statement, but again, I'm and I'm coming from it in a bit of an advocacy position, because I'm an observer, I'm not part of the education system. I'm a, I'm a consultant to students who are in it. But in our education system, we are hyper focusing on behavior management, and under focusing on building relational safety. And the neuroscience is unequivocal, that relational safety is the foundation of resilience. It's the foundation of physical and mental health. And why in the heck are our special ed students not given relational safety? Why are they given behavior management as the as the top end approach, which by the way is very expensive, and especially our students with the worst, you know, the worst or the most quote unquote, air, quote, egregious behavioral challenges are given the most detailed and, and overarching behavior plans, which, again, go back to the fact that we are not looking at human beings who are in distress and what their nervous system signals are. And agitated behaviors, fight or flight behaviors, hitting, kicking, self harm, all of those behaviors are a sign of a human being in distress, not a human being acting out to make other people's lives difficult. So our whole mentality, I think, is is about a couple 100 years old, in how we view behavioral challenges. And that was my purpose of writing beyond behaviors is that I think it's time we shift away from that.


Tim Villegas

Fantastic. Don't want us to run out of time with the with the Zoom. So I think if we exit, and then come back in on the same link, we'll have about you know, 20 minutes before you need to hop off. Does that sound good?


Mona Delahooke

Yeah, that those questions are great, by the way.


Tim Villegas

Oh, thanks.


Mona Delahooke

Yeah, good.


Mona Delahooke

Really enjoying that conversation! All right. And then we come right back.


Tim Villegas

Exactly. And use the same link. All right.


Mona Delahooke

Okay.


Tim Villegas

You live in Southern California, correct?


Mona Delahooke

Yeah.


Tim Villegas

So I grew up in Arcadia.


Mona Delahooke

Oh my gosh, you're kidding.


Tim Villegas

Yeah. I grew up in Arcadia off of off of Longdon. Do you know where that is?


Mona Delahooke

Yeah, my office is on South First Avenue.


Tim Villegas

Yeah, I lived on Fourth on South Fourth.


Mona Delahooke

Oh my gosh. That's over by Carl's Jr. I walk over there for lunch.


Tim Villegas

Yeah, yeah, I know exactly where that is.


Mona Delahooke

Where do you live now?


Tim Villegas

I live in Georgia. I live in near Atlanta.


Mona Delahooke

Oh. Did you grow up there?


Tim Villegas

I grew up in Arcadia. I went to Arcadia Christian School, which is actually on Santa Anita. And then I went to Maranatha High School, which is now in Pasadena, it used to be in Sierra Madre.


Mona Delahooke

Okay, Tim.


Tim Villegas

Yeah.


Mona Delahooke

I went to Maranatha High School.


Tim Villegas

No, you didn't. We're alumni?


Mona Delahooke

It's a secret. I don't tell anyone that. Oh my gosh. That's freaky.


Tim Villegas

Yeah. Well, I feel I feel so connected with you Mona.


Mona Delahooke

Oh, honestly. Ok we are all thrown off now.


Tim Villegas

I was not expecting that. I thought you were just gonna say Oh, yeah. Arcadi is the you know, the arboretum the peacocks.


Mona Delahooke

I know, I've never met anyone who's ever heard of Maranatha High School. So if that's just really, this is really amazing.


Tim Villegas

That's great. That's great. Okay, all right, back to back to work.


Tim Villegas

So something that I thought was really interesting about Brain-Body parenting was the pathways. And I don't mean any disrespect in in that they reminded me of Zones of Regulation. But they're not they're definitely not the same thing. But the the colors and the pathways, I think are really useful. I really think that educators could learn a lot from them. So could you briefly explain the pathways?


Mona Delahooke

Oh, thank you. And I'm really glad you brought up the Zones of Regulation, because a lot of teachers are familiar with the Zones of Regulation. And it's a great cognitive behavioral teaching tool. I was at a gathering a few years ago, and I met the the co-creator of the Zones of Regulation. And I want to make it very clear that these colors that I'm talking about, were developed years before the Zones of Regulation by someone named Connie Lillas, a colleague of mine, the colors that I talked about, in Brain Body parenting and Beyond Behaviors are standing colors for the three main pathways of the autonomic nervous system. And those were developed in 2009. And the Zones of Regulation is a cognitive behavioral teaching tool, completely different. And and truly, I guess my my caution on the Zones of Regulation is that I really think that they are being oversold to our vulnerable populations, because they're, they're we're operating outside of the fact that self regulation is not a learned experience. It is a an embodied experience that happens through relationships. And I think that the zones of regulation have been misinterpreted as a behavior management tool sometimes. So you're having, Oh, where are you right now. And of course, children feel like green is better. Like they they make that up themselves, like, Oh, I'm green, or Oh, no, my colors changing, you know, that's bad. So I have a very big caution about that. And also a caution again, with all due respect to teachers, and I know, I know, you, you have the best of intentions, but behavior charts serve to dysregulate more students than they may serve to regulate. So I'm really glad you brought that in. So the three pathways that the autonomic nervous system are from a theory called the polyvagal theory, which kind of now we go into neuroscience, but my database is translating neuroscience into practical use, because I think it's so it's, it's good for us to know how the brain and body work. And so the three pathways really quick are the green pathway, which you don't have to worry about the scientific name, the ventral vagal. But the green pathway is where our nervous system is socially engaged. It is feeling calm, it is able to learn this is where children play, it's where we can ask them to stretch a little bit. And that nervous system again, it's that we don't choose these. It's automatic. It's the automatic or autonomic nervous system. When the body is perceiving safety on a very, very primitive primal level. You are in the green. Now, we cannot always live in the green because A we're not robots and B the world isn't perfectly predictable. So that we have another nervous system, another pathway that launches beyond our control when our nervous system detects any form of threat, and it's its threat that's to the individual. So again, it's invisible. And it could be something as subtle as a noise or a smell, or a hearing a siren, many, many miles away. And that's the red pathway. And that's commonly known as the fight or flight response, where you will see those behaviors related to movement, eloping running out of running out of a classroom hitting, kicking, screaming, those kinds of behaviors are signs when they are accompanied by the physiology like sweaty hands, erratic heartbeat, racing thoughts, etc, of a human in the red pathway where they need to move. And they're not purposefully having these kinds of behaviors, they're being driven by that nervous system, which is known as, as an adaptive protective nervous system. And then finally, the third color blue is when human beings detect either detect a very large amount of stress so that they kind of freeze, or they're kind of had a lot of toxic stress over a lot of period of time. And they begin to just kind of withdraw and lose some hope. So those would be kids who are who just sit around, don't play, don't engage, don't look through you rather than at you. And maybe very low energy, low movement, as opposed to the high movement of the red pathway. So we can think of these three pathways and look at students bodies, look at our own way, their human pathways, if you are feeling kind of hopeless, for are down in the dumps are very immobilized. Believe me, a lot of teachers and therapists and parents are feeling this due to the extended stress of the pandemic. So be careful, be gentle Watch out for your mental and physical health, though those signs are ones to pay attention to get help if you need it, and then add to that add to your body budget, add things to help you feel better, because you'll be a better teacher or parent, you'll feel more regulated yourself.


Tim Villegas

Right. And you do give some suggestions about self care. I know that that's kind of a big topic, you know, for parents and educators. But I want to ask you about check-ins, because I think timeouts have, you know, I don't think I think they're still being used, you know, but they're certainly not as popular as they were, especially in parenting. But you're you're suggesting a check-in and maybe a more robust check-in then just like, Hey, how are you doing? Yeah, so what? What does that look like? What does that?


Mona Delahooke

Well, this is what we do, this is what we do in the check in. And it's related to those colors. Actually, the bottom line really is understanding our nervous system and the child's nervous system. In the moment, that is the best guide, we have not their behaviors, but their nervous system. So we can use those colors for the check in. And the first thing we do, the first step of the check in is number one, check in with yourself, are you red, blue, or green. If you're the parent, you the teacher are in the red, or you're immobilized in the blue, you're not going to be able to help students or your children very well. Because our nervous systems transmit from one human to another, a and b your behaviors. If you're in the red, you may do or say things that you later regret because you're compelled to move or to yell or to scream, and not to use your, your words and your thoughtfulness. So check yourself if you're in the green good to go. If you're red or blue, do something to calm yourself if you're in the red, or to upregulate yourself if you're in the blue. Make sure the child is safe and and then step one happens because you can't pour from an empty cup. We can try but again, nervous systems are very intelligent. And our students and our kids first of all, react to how we are rather than what we say. So milliseconds before you process what the words and adults are saying you're processing their emotional tone. So step number one, check yourself. Step number two, check the child's color. Are they red, blue, or green? If they're green, you can use some nice logic you can set some good limits and start to problem solve with your words. But if they're in the red or blue, you stabilize, you don't go to a lot of words you use what we what we call in the books as your your private toolbox for each child and I have parents and caregivers actually go through pages of tabulating that private toolbox because it's different for each child of what will work. But once you have that, in your in your possession, then you go into Step three, which is you work together, you work from the body up to the brain down, and the body up, meaning you help stabilize that child's platform, you have them feel safe again. And then all you, you really don't need all those behavior management techniques, because you've organically helped the child self regulate through this process of human interaction relationships.


Tim Villegas

It sounds like when you go through these steps that the child learns, through co regulation, how to do this themselves.


Mona Delahooke

That's right. And it's, we call it an embodied experience, because you're not teaching it, you're embodying it, you're modeling it, you're doing it, and that's the most profound shift for children is when they experience it rather than learn it. And I know sometimes that's hard for teachers, because when teachers love to teach, I love that. But you can't really truly, truly from a brain body perspective, you can't truly teach self regulation, it has to be experienced.


Tim Villegas

I think that is a mind shift. Because yeah, we're teachers we want to teach, you know, we want to we want to create goals, we want to create targets, in observable, measurable.


Mona Delahooke

God bless you all. Yes, we and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have targets and having things be measurable and observable. But we can still do that in in in this relationship based approach.


Tim Villegas

So last question, and then we'll get to where people can find your work. This seems like it's great for younger kids who are still figuring out who they are and how to self regulate. But how much does this apply to older children, adolescents, teenagers and even adults?


Mona Delahooke

Well, that's the, that's the cool thing is that when you when we understand social and emotional development, it's really developmental, it's not chronological, so it's not our actual age, it's really a human process. So it'll look different. So the way you co regulate with a toddler will look different than the way you co regulate with a 10 year old or a teenager Right? Or even your your partner, your spouse, because we can use these these tools in all of our relationships. Where's my nervous system? Where's this other person's nervous system? Are we are we the place where we can actually problem solve? Or do we have to go to somewhere more basic and stabilize first? So I think it's it looks different, but absolutely we can we can apply it across the age span.


Tim Villegas

Where can people find Brain-Body Parenting and where can people follow your work?


Mona Delahooke

Well, my website monadelahooke.com I have a blog and lots of resources there so people can go there. And on Facebook and Instagram Dr. Mona Delahooke and Twitter. And yeah, Brain-Body Parenting. Both books are available on Amazon and Brain-Body Parenting is available at most bookstores, Barnes and Noble and I heard it's at Target and Walmart. So it's available.


Tim Villegas

Alright!


Tim Villegas

Now, please go out and get Beyond Behaviors and Dr. Delahooke's newest Brain-Body Parenting, follow her work. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much, Dr. Mona Delahooke for being on the Think Inclusive Podcast. We appreciate your time.


Mona Delahooke

Thanks so much for having me.


Tim Villegas

Think Inclusive is written, edited and sound designed by Tim Villegas, and is a production of MCIE. Original music by Miles Kredich. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. And if you did, here are some ways you can help our podcast grow. Share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you haven't already, give us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Special thanks to our patrons Melissa H., Veronica E., Sonya A., Pamela P., Mark C., Kathy B., Kathleen T., Jarett T., Gabby M., and Erin P., for their support of Think Inclusive. Another way you can help support Think Inclusive is to become a patron. We are just a few patrons away from producing an additional monthly episode only on Patreon. Go to patreon.com/thinkinclusivepodcast and become a patron today. For more information about inclusive education or to learn how MCIE can partner with you and your school or district, visit mcie.org. We will be back in a couple of weeks. Thanks for your time and attention. And remember inclusion always works.



99 views